Honor – Definitions and Meditations

Timely meditation on honor, and self control– which feeds into a well formed conscience.

Told you it was timely.

Plus, I’m just delighted to have a way to explain “shame vs guilt” in honor terms– shame is external honor, guilt is internal. Reality matters for the latter, other folks’ belief for the second.

Cat Rotator's Quarterly

I have no idea why the idea bubbled up, other than my wondering how, exactly, one would define “caddish” behavior in modern terms. Those of us who have read books written during Victorian times, or patterned off of those, recognize a cad when we see one in action. “Sleezy” doesn’t work, because caddish behavior did not necessarily imply that the man’s manner was unctuous, slimy, and somewhat dirty. There’s a sense of disrespect at a fundamental level by the cad for his cad’s victim, and an unwillingness to accept responsibility. Like another famous definition, those who read/imprinted on Victorian-era books “know it when I see it.”

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Author: Foxfier

Former sailor, current geek, conservative, mother and practicing Catholic. Refugee from the Seattle blob. (No, we DIDN'T vote for those taxes!) Elf is my husband, our kids are Princess, Duchess, Baron, Empress, Chief, and Contessa.

15 thoughts on “Honor – Definitions and Meditations”

  1. I’m wondering if shame might not be both. Myabe?

    Or if “shame” is a more intense version of “embarassment”. For example, dunking bread in your wine in a public vs. doing so at home alone with your soup & good book. A function of manners vs. morals.
    I’d need to think it through some more.

    But definitely guilt only depends on your internalized moral code.

    1. *waggles hands around*

      Part of the problem is that in English we use shame to describe the “recognition that others recognize we done messed up per our (presumably shared) internal code.”

      I actually have a story chunk floating around on my hard drive that grew out of an epic mental rant about Klingon “honor” being almost entirely BS– with Worf being one of the few that displayed honor, adhering to that which is right, rather than face, ‘but what will people think.’

      It totally doesn’t measure up to whatever you may conjure from that description.

      1. Well, IMO Klingon “Honor” was whatever the writers wanted it to be. :grin:

        But one aspect of “Honor” that I thought that the writers missed is “There Are Things That I Will Not Do”.

        The writers may have missed it but Worf showed that aspect.

      2. Well yes, but while I liked Worf, I preferred the Klingons of the Original Series to the ones of Next Generation.

      3. I honestly found Worf to be a logical outgrowth of the TOS Klingons when you remember he was raised by German (ish?) parents and wanting to be as true as true can be.

        Basically, Spock, without being a half-blood.

        Which is why he is MORE true to Klingon than Klingons are.

        ….she says, and still swoons about the TOS look.

      4. Well, IMO TOS Klingons weren’t “known” for Honor. They were a Totalitarian Empire known more for conquering their neighbors than for “Honor”.

      5. Pretty sure they mentioned honor a few times, which would make it a functional sort of honor…which works very well to mutate into Worf actually observing what they said, rather than what they did.

      6. In my defense, one of my running mental-exercises is thinking WAY too hard about stuff.

        Pretty sure I’d rate Picard only slightly above Garak as far as homicidal maniacs go.

      7. LOL

        Well, my problem with this “side track” is that I can’t see a real connection between TOS Klingons and NG Klingons.

        They have the same “Cultural Name” and the same “Space Ship Design” but that’s it.

        I don’t mind the change in appearance but the change in basic culture is another matter. :grin:

        Now what might have been interesting is if Worf was actually from an Off-Shoot of the Klingon “Species”.

        His family and culture were part of a group that fled the “main” group that created the Klingon Empire.

        Of course, Worf’s group might have called themselves something other than “Klingon”.

        It’s interesting how some writers of SF/Fantasy have an alien species being under a single government and having a single culture.

        Just look at how many cultures humans have so why should an alien species have a single culture?

        About the only way it would work IMO is if a single culture conquered the rest of the cultures on the species home world so they spread to the stars under a single government and culture.

      8. I can see the Righteous Bastard type guys being cutting edge versions of the Honorable MumbleMumble guys.

        But your version would be so *cool*.

        I mind-canon it as “this is the culture of the main group. The rest are elsewhere, doing other stuff, and don’t class as Race Culture.”

      9. As a thing that determines morality, it’d only be in the Face cultures that it would be involved, like you said it’s a minor level shame.

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