>And this is why I titled the post as I did

>I posted on the nonreligious reasons for homosexual marriage being a non-starter.

Mastgrr said…
In my opinion the government should leave it up to the churches and priests. Nobody has the right to tell you what version of Christianity is the best for you, so it’s not right to outlaw gay marriage because it would imply that your version is more wrong than someone else’s. We have a first amendment and guarantees religious freedom.

I dislike being rude, but as I posted, did he even read the post? For that matter, it’s not “outlawing gay marriage”– you can’t outlaw something that is already illegal.

Stop the red herrings and use the brain in your skull, or show yourself for the troll that you seem to be; despite the opening that you believe it should be left to the churches and priests, you seem to ignore the entire social structure that is already part of the government. That is why the guy who shacks up with a girl for a week doesn’t have to fear for his salary, but the guy who is married to a woman for a few years does face losing cash, even without children.

It should be pretty clear that the topic of the right religion isn’t involved– the effects of a dominant religion on marriage in various cultures is mentioned. That’s it.

Oh, and the exact text of the first:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

That does not guarantee religious freedom, actually. It says that congress (the federal law-maker) can’t make a state religion (such as England has/had) or outlaw a religion (i.e., “no more Mormons”). Actually, your suggestion to leave it to the priests, without re-writing just about all of our existing property laws, would result in MANY state-established religions. (I would like to note that I’m using “state” in the national sense, not the unit-of-the-country sense.)

Here’s a question for you and your base assumptions: can you find a major world religion that does NOT have a marriage-between-reproducing-pairs arrangement?

PS–love Pali’Sucks, part of why I hope for a good response.


>Please don’t read if you’re not willing to argue with logic


Look: Marriage is the organized, religion-approved, government protected version of animals mating. Animals mate to reproduce, continuing the species, and so do people. Because people are a lot more complicated, we have to have support while we’re growing up– come on, until you’re about 13, there’s no way you could possibly support yourself if everyone else was doing it as well. Many animals don’t even LIVE that long.

So, we have an organized version of mating that makes sure the kit is socialized, cared for and taught to do the same when mature to ensure that the species will continue.

Because we’re people, we gotta nuke the heck out of it– over think, in civilian terms– and make a mountain out of a mole hill. Is love important? Yes. Do I wish that everyone finds the true love, the other half of their soul? Oh, goodness, yes. Does that have the slightest thing to do with marriage? Oh hell no.

Love in the USA and similar cultures is needed for a good marriage, because it’s a large part of the basis of our culture– anybody want to do a paper on the dominant religion’s view of God and how their marriages are set up?– but in places where there isn’t the focus on love, marriage often works because of duty. (Refer back to the Bible: Wife, obey your husband; Husband, husband your wife.) It’s getting kinda wonky lately because many folks have an immature version of love– i.e., purely as a good feeling that doesn’t demand anything from you, and if that good feeling goes, screw them.

But, at the core, marriage is keeping the species alive and productive. That’s why I am against gay marriage. If you just responded anything like Homophobe, please, grow up and tell me why you think it’s wrong, don’t use pseudo-medical accusations on my sanity. (such as it is)

Go study the Catholic Church’s teachings on marriage. They’ve been at this thinking things out deal a lot longer than any government, and they’re unusual in religions because they do have a logical process for what they say, if you bother to find it out. Try the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Some usual responses to usual objections:

Infertile couples: we can’t actually know for sure if a couple is infertile in most cases, and I much prefer the KISS rule of government. Hard cases make for bad laws, and if we try to enforce such a requirement, it screws stuff up.

Lonely Homosexuals: you don’t have to get married to stop being lonely. And if you want to be married to get the bennies when you don’t have to pay the emotional, physical price of bearing children, that’s rather cheating. Just make out a power of attorney to the other person– let me keep this short, make a legal contract that does what you want.

Homosexuals want children: Why are you treating the next generation like a pet? It’s highly unlikely that a child you adopt or bear via artificial means will be homosexual, so you just royally screwed up their only chance to see a good example of what they will grow up to deal with socially in a mated relationship. That is selfish and cruel. I grew up with a boy whose mom left his dad and turned bi– I liked the family, but that poor boy was royally screwed up when it comes to male roll models. He ended up choosing rodeo stars to fill the model of how he should be when he grows up, and although he was cute as a bug and popular he didn’t date much in high school and had a great deal of trouble dealing with adult males. (The family rode with us– he was pretty good help, too.)

What about single/horrible/serial monogamous hetro parents: I don’t like kids growing up with only one parent– as I mentioned, it hurts them for dealing with folks in life– but this is another case of the hard case making bad law. I cannot condone giving the government oversight to who is allowed to bear children if physically able to do so. We live in an imperfect world, and that means that sometimes heartbreaking things happen.

>That bites….

>Mr. Bolton won’t be our ambassador for much longer, since the vote to confirm him was blocked.

That man is what an American rep to the UN should be– aware that conduct matters, but that the group itself is useless as tits on a chicken.

He had class.

On the other hand….

Bolton/Rummy ’08!

>A Different Christmas Poem


The embers glowed softly, and in their dim light,
I gazed round the room and I cherished the sight.
My wife was asleep, her head on my chest,
My daughter beside me, angelic in rest.
Outside the snow fell, a blanket of white,
Transforming the yard to a winter delight.
The sparkling lights in the tree I believe,
Completed the magic that was Christmas Eve.
My eyelids were heavy, my breathing was deep,
Secure and surrounded by love I would sleep.
In perfect contentment, or so it would seem,
So I slumbered, perhaps I started to dream.

The sound wasn’t loud, and it wasn’t too near,
But I opened my eyes when it tickled my ear.
Perhaps just a cough, I didn’t quite know, Then the
sure sound of footsteps outside in the snow.
My soul gave a tremble, I struggled to hear,
And I crept to the door just to see who was near.
Standing out in the cold and the dark of the night,
A lone figure stood, his face weary and tight.

A soldier, I puzzled, some twenty years old,
Perhaps a Marine, huddled here in the cold.
Alone in the dark, he looked up and smiled,
Standing watch over me, and my wife and my child.
“What are you doing?” I asked without fear,
“Come in this moment, it’s freezing out here!
Put down your pack, brush the snow from your sleeve,
You should be at home on a cold Christmas Eve!”

For barely a moment I saw his eyes shift,
Away from the cold and the snow blown in drifts..
To the window that danced with a warm fire’s light
Then he sighed and he said “Its really all right,
I’m out here by choice. I’m here every night.”
“It’s my duty to stand at the front of the line,
That separates you from the darkest of times.
No one had to ask or beg or implore me,
I’m proud to stand here like my fathers before me.
My Gramps died at ‘Pearl on a day in December,”
Then he sighed, “That’s a Christmas ‘Gram always remembers.”
My dad stood his watch in the jungles of ‘Nam’,
And now it is my turn and so, here I am.
I’ve not seen my own son in more than a while,
But my wife sends me pictures, he’s sure got her smile.

Then he bent and he carefully pulled from his bag,
The red, white, and blue… an American flag.
I can live through the cold and the being alone,
Away from my family, my house and my home.
I can stand at my post through the rain and the sleet,
I can sleep in a foxhole with little to eat.
I can carry the weight of killing another,
Or lay down my life with my sister and brother..
Who stand at the front against any and all,
To ensure for all time that this flag will not fall.”

“So go back inside,” he said, “harbor no fright,
Your family is waiting and I’ll be all right.”
“But isn’t there something I can do, at the least,
“Give you money,” I asked, “or prepare you a feast?
It seems all too little for all that you’ve done,
For being away from your wife and your son.”
Then his eye welled a tear that held no regret,
“Just tell us you love us, and never forget.
To fight for our rights back at home while we’re gone,
To stand your own watch, no matter how long.
For when we come home, either standing or dead,
To know you remember we fought and we bled.
Is payment enough, and with that we will trust,
That we mattered to you as you mattered to us.”

>Look! It’s another one!


You are The Hierophant

Divine Wisdom. Manifestation. Explanation. Teaching.

All things relating to education, patience, help from superiors.The Hierophant is often considered to be a Guardian Angel.

The Hierophant’s purpose is to bring the spiritual down to Earth. Where the High Priestess between her two pillars deals with realms beyond this Earth, the Hierophant (or High Priest) deals with worldly problems. He is well suited to do this because he strives to create harmony and peace in the midst of a crisis. The Hierophant’s only problem is that he can be stubborn and hidebound. At his best, he is wise and soothing, at his worst, he is an unbending traditionalist.

What Tarot Card are You?
Take the Test to Find Out.


>Five years ago today, in boot camp, I found out that two planes had run into the World Trade Center. Half an hour later, we found out that the Pentagon’s army section had been hit. The father of the girl in the bunk next to me had a meeting there that day. He’s an Army chaplain. He broke a leg getting out.

A guy who graduated boot camp at the same time as me lost his entire mom’s side of the family. He refused to loose any time at the boot camp, so he could go out and get the bastards that attacked our country and killed his family.

A former sailor's ramblings on anything from family, country and Church through general geek-ness.